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The Tim Ahlman Podcast
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The Tim Ahlman Podcast
Balancing Family Time and Spiritual Leadership | Pastor Andy Ritchie
Ever wondered how to balance the demands of ministry with the joys and challenges of parenting? Join us as we engage in a meaningful conversation with Andy Ritchie, the senior pastor of St. Paul Lutheran Church, who shares his personal journey of spiritual leadership and family life. Through his stories, we uncover the triumphs and setbacks that have shaped his ministry and the unanticipated joys of watching his children grow into their faith. Andy delves into his experiences, emphasizing the delicate balance between offering guidance and allowing his children to forge their own spiritual paths, all under the influence of the Holy Spirit.
Takeaways
- Seeing God work in my kids always brings me joy.
- Keeping conversation around the dinner table open is crucial.
- Be humble, be willing to apologize for mistakes.
- It's important to empower others in ministry.
- We should be putting ourselves out of business as pastors.
- Open communication leads to easier conversations about difficult topics.
- It's okay to have something not work or even fail.
- Trust your leaders and allow them to take ownership.
- Jesus showed us the way to develop leaders.
- We need to adapt to the changing climate in ministry. Adaptive leadership is crucial for addressing pastoral shortages.
- Local context matters in ministry; different areas have unique needs.
- Developing healthy habits in ministry leads to long-term joy.
- Confession and mission should not be seen as opposing forces.
- The priesthood of all believers is essential for church growth.
- Mentorship is vital for the development of young pastors.
- Community engagement enhances the church's mission.
- Trust among church leaders fosters collaboration and growth.
- Cultural sensitivity is important in diverse ministry contexts.
- Leadership development should focus on empowering others.
And when it doesn't work, it's okay. It's okay to have something not work or even fail. What do we learn from it and what would we change? Or wouldn't we do it again? Period, but that's you know. God doesn't care about that. What he cares about is, you know, did we try, did we do something?
Speaker 2:You know, because he's given us opportunities to step into ministry, and not all of them will be, at least in the wind that we think it might be, you know. So there's winds in other other ways. Sometimes it's just by simply learning. Happy day, Welcome to the Tim Allman podcast. I pray.
Speaker 2:The joy and love and hope peace of Jesus is fueling you for a conversation today where we get to learn with a pastor I've admired from afar for some time. His name is Andy Ritchie. He actually said I'm just a pastor and I don't know what I have to bring. That's exactly the right posture Humility as we build, measure and learn this thing called trying to advance the gospel of Jesus in the local church. He is currently the senior pastor at St Paul Lutheran Church in school in Lakeland, Florida. I've been to St Paul. I was a vicar at Grace in Winter Haven, gosh 20 years ago or so, and what an awesome ministry. Oversees a number of different teachers, administrators there.
Speaker 2:Our contexts are pretty similar, I believe, and he is recently an empty nester. If you're watching this on YouTube, like subscribe there, but you'll see it. He says coach and we got into a conversation. He's a shooting coach and his daughter is in college right now, and when I hear shooting, I thought it was basketball. No, this is guns, and I am the least gunned person you can imagine, so I'd have a lot to learn there. He also. He and his wife are also recent empty nesters, and he highly recommends a book Doing Life. This is cool Doing Life with your Adult Children, how to Keep your Mouth Shut and your Welcome Mat Open. I'm going to be needing to check that out in just a handful of years. We're approaching that season quickly, so let's start out the conversation today. Well, how are you doing, Andy? Loving life.
Speaker 1:I'm doing really well. Yeah, loving ministry, loving the opportunity to just spend time. Coming off of a Christmas break. All my family were under the roof and my heart was full as my son was there and my two daughters, and those days are precious now as they're all basically young adult, making their way in the world in different directions.
Speaker 2:Praise God. Man, you're welcome. That is out indeed, so let's hunt the good stuff. What's giving you joy, life and ministry right now? What's Jesus up to?
Speaker 1:There's so many different things, you know, from a personal side or from a church side. And you know, just seeing God work in my kids always brings me joy. And you know, my middle daughter, my middle child, she's my second daughter. She just graduated from Concordia Ann Arbor, got her nursing degree, and so there's great joy in that that comes with it. And just, you know, seeing how much she grew spiritually when she got out on her own, away from mom and dad, she was responsible, you know, a lot for her own faith.
Speaker 1:It wasn't like, well, I got to do this because this is what mom and dad expect, but she took the step and, you know, just took responsibility for her own faith. So that brings me great joy for seeing, you know, my kids make those kind of moves in their life. But you know, also here at the church, just seeing God at work and in people's lives, you know it's, it's amazing, and so much of it isn't what I do or what some of the staff does, it's, it's the spirit working inside of them and then we get to kind of watch or come alongside and and help them in that journey and walk with them. You know it's that discipleship piece.
Speaker 2:I love that. Well, let's talk about parenting. I didn't send you this question but since you bring it up, there's a lot of leaders, church leaders that I think we feel like, if we and the Bible says something about this, if he should manage his household well, he who desires to be an overseer or a leader, a pastor, et cetera, and if we kind of miss there. And there's grace, obviously there's ample, ample grace, but I think a lot of folks, man, how could I get to that point where I'm like Andy Ritchie, where I'm looking at my kids and just saying, wow, god, thank you, thank you, thank you that they've kind of taken that they're adulting and they're taking their faith very, very serious.
Speaker 2:If you look back, what are two or three things that you did? In parenting is never perfect. It's a circuitous route, highs and highs and lows. But what, what did you do? That was, you know, spirit ordained, spirit led for sure. But you're like man, I, if there were some principles that I could pass on to other parents, I'd love to pass those principles on as they move their kids into those adulting years. How'd you do it, andy?
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, I think a lot of it is. Just, you know, keeping conversation around the dinner table open and having dinner around the table. You know, for a pastor we can book ourselves up a whole bunch. As business people we can do the same thing. You know where we're doing, evening meetings or whatever the case may be. But you know I've maintained a fairly.
Speaker 1:You know, as the time went on I kind of learned this, to be honest with you, and made it a priority. Just, you know, being home for dinner. You know, at least on the week during the week, at least two to three nights a week to be able to have it. Plus, you know, on the weekends where we sat around the table and we always finished up supper, it was just an expectation, with a little devotional of some kind. It was always age appropriate. As the kids learned to read, they got to read those devotions. So they always like taking a turn to do that and we always did pow's and wow's or good thing or bad thing, whatever it happened to be. You know it kind of changed as they grew up a little bit. And you know, when we gathered together, like we just did over Christmas, and we were all in the house together. We still did that. We still got the opportunity to do devotions around the table and say what was a good thing and what was a bad thing, you know today, and that leads to all kinds of different conversations. And they just my kids, you know, they've seen a lot.
Speaker 1:We were in Alaska for a while. That can be a place to do ministry. That is wonderful and great and it's, you know, I mean I really loved it because basically it's a gigantic mission field. But you know, the kids were exposed to a lot of things there that maybe they wouldn't be exposed to other places as readily. You know, some of their friends have committed suicide. Those were conversations that we were able to have around the table and just talk about it. So you know, I mean even even sex comes up, and so you know, it's just having that open conversation starts with having open conversations about the little things, and then the big things are a lot easier to have conversations around the table. So I feel really blessed that that's how we spend a lot of our time. It was just a, it was a desire and an expectation. So that's just what we, we did and the kids, you know, just fell right in with it and still like it today.
Speaker 2:What you created ritual is what I hear. Yeah, this is the way human beings. We need habits and hopefully they're. They're healthy habits which connect us to God and connect us to one another. And there has to be, because then relationship is a fuel for difficult conversations, a relationship of trust. Then, naturally, when that comes up, it's just a normal thing.
Speaker 2:We're gonna talk about the highs and the lows, and the darkness, the loss which is inevitable in life, and I'm here for you, like that's the best thing, and I'm also I'd be curious to know there's a sense of empowerment, equipping you have everything. Like we're going to be here for you but you're going to be okay and you're going to make good decisions. You're going to make some bad decisions, but you're going to be okay. And I think moms and dads, especially as you move into that you got kids in their late teens and then then early 20s. That's like the next season of life for my wife and I. I'm just excited to see them get out and try, fail, you know, get up and get after it. Like there's a. What you provided and still provide is is safety for risk.
Speaker 2:Like there has to be a certain amount of safety for human beings to feel like, okay, I can try some, I can go off to Ann Arbor and I'm going to be okay, mom and dad, provided that sort of safety. Anything more to add there about the need for ritual Andy?
Speaker 1:Yeah, you know, I think for people in my age, you know, bracket, as far as maybe not age, but at least life age, where the kids are moving out, it's hard sometimes to let go. I have a hard time sometimes letting my adult kids be adults. But you know we've got to do that. You know we've equipped them, we got to step back, be there for them, but we can't tell them to put their hat on and their jacket, you know, when they're going out the door, that's up to them. So, yeah, just let them live their life and trust in the Lord and continue.
Speaker 1:One of the things I've got some prayer partners that surround me, some mighty men of faith, you know and one of the things that is a normal prayer request, probably every other week, is just that God would bring them a godly spouse, you know, a God-fearing spouse, somebody that is, you know, walking in the faith as well, you know. So sometimes we just have to step back and pray for them. So, you know, be praying for your kids. I think that's one of the things that I continue to be reminded of in my own journey in my own journey.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so good, so good. Let's talk about growth as a leader. Looking back over your life in ministry, andy, what are some things? So speak to the pastor, the leader, whatever vocation he's just they're grinding right, they're just trying to make, they're trying to make it establish themselves. As you look over your life and ministry, what are some things you thought were important but actually it turns out they weren't that important, and maybe even the inverse of that question. You know things that were important. You're like man I wish I would have you know, because I have some of those things just personally too. I wish I would have, and I'm not riddled by guilt or anything like that, but I definitely want to pass on that word of wisdom to those that are coming up behind me. So let's just talk wisdom, andy, right now, what do you?
Speaker 1:got. The more you think you've got something nailed down, the more that I think you learn that you know what you're going to make mistakes and you just rely on God's grace in those things, whether it's raising kids or mistakes in the church. Be humble, be willing to apologize. You know my worst mistakes sometimes were parenting my kids over disciplining and you know know I've had to come back sometimes and went. You know what I overdid, that I'm sorry, that I lost my cool over that. You know that that was not good of me. I'm sorry and I apologize and I hope you forgive me and that this doesn't happen with the kids, that that happens in a church too, because pastors aren't perfect. So sometimes we've got to stand up and own our mistakes. You know sometimes you can be too aggressive.
Speaker 1:I look at the young Andy and I kind of went. I don't know how some of those congregations ever tolerated me but by God's grace they were gentle with me, especially one of my first congregations. It was the middle of a farm country and I look back at my preaching and the way I handled some things and you know I mean we learn and we grow and we can look back and learn from things that we did, good and bad and rely on God that he worked through it all and survived. That happens always, always. God is working through our mistakes as well as through the things that we do that are right and up front. So I think allowing ourselves sometimes to say I messed up is a really important thing for our congregation to hear, as well as our families. So were you too.
Speaker 2:Was the younger Andy too aggressive or too passive? Which direction did the errors often go?
Speaker 1:Yeah, so I was a second career pastor, so I ran a business and you know I, you come in to ministry and it's very different from being a business owner where you've got you know 15, 20 people that you're employing and if somebody isn't working out, you fire them. You don't fire volunteers, you learn to work with them and I knew that coming in. But until you experience it, until you have to, you know kind of let go. Okay, what does that mean? Or what does that look like? Because I think one of the things that at least I struggled with when I first came out of SEM was they weren't doing it the way I thought they should. And what I learned over time was look, set the goal out there for them, help them understand what a win is, and then let them go and they may take a very crooked path to it, you know in our eyes. Or they may go from A to B just like they're charging down a field and you're like going yeah, that's the way I would do it, but let them do that, and then stand with them and help them, but don't expect them to do the same way that I would do it, because they're a different person and they can't be me, and so, yeah, I think that's you know.
Speaker 1:One of the things that I had to learn was to just release people and allow them to have wins and let them celebrate that win. And when it doesn't work, it's okay. It's okay to have something not work or even fail. What do we learn from it and what would we change? Or wouldn't we do it again? Period, but that's you know, god doesn't care about that. What he cares about is, you know, did we try? Did we do something? You know, because he's given us opportunities to step into ministry and not all of them will be at least in the wind that we think it might be, you know. So there's winds in other ways. Sometimes it's just by simply learning.
Speaker 2:Yeah, well, that is the wind is to maintain a humble learning posture for sure. How do you speak to the pastor that feels like they got to be and a congregation that even like expects to some degree, because it's what they've seen, kind of modeled, modeled that the pastor is the Bible answer man and the pastor, unless he's working, you know, 70, 80 hours a week, he's probably not effective. And how do you speak to that pastor, because this is one of the major things with the ULC to move from? How do you mentor and guide them moving from a doer, them moving from a doer I got to be everywhere and even kind of control everything to a developer of people and a releaser and a quipper and a releaser, a deployer of people. Andy, how does that shift happen?
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think you know part of it is just learning to set some boundaries in our own life and be able to say no to some things or limit our time even. You know, it's one of my congregations that I served. They had all their meetings on one night. Actually, that's not where it started, though. When it started they had different, all these different committees and boards and things like that. It was really heavy into that and I was expected to be, you know, at all these different meetings, all these different nights during the month, and it really left little time for ministry. When you actually looked at my calendar and so one of the things that I said, I said, look, why don't we do this all in one night? All these board meetings? They were a committee driven church and have that opportunity.
Speaker 1:I'll come in for five or 10 minutes in your meeting. You give me any questions you've got or let me know. You know what you need and how I can support and walk with you in this, and then I'll go to the next one. Um, but I'm trusting you, cause you know what to do. You're you're on the ground doing ministry there. So you know, I'm I'm releasing you to do You're on the ground doing ministry there. So you know I'm releasing you to do that. So I try to instill trust in the leaders and we've got great leaders in the church. We just don't often let them go or don't utilize them. For some reason we carry it with a little bit of fear like they're going to mess it up or whatever. Don't be that way.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I agree with that. You can't be any more straight Stop. Sometimes the law is just like stop doing that.
Speaker 2:Why are we doing it that way. There's no, there's nothing in the scripture, the Lutheran confessions For those of you who are are Lutheran that mandate a pastor has to be all things like, in everywhere, and I I'm even thinking all things to all people. But even Paul, even Paul's like, he's working on a team, like he's going, he's driven, he's grinding, for sure, but he's just, as I read the epistles, he's just connecting, correcting, encouraging and releasing all of all of Paul's letters. If you read, if you read Paul's letters without a missional edge, like, you're totally misrepresenting who he was, like the driving, why get the gospel from Jude, a Gentile? He's received the marching orders from Jesus. He knows suffering trial is going to be a major part of his story, which it certainly was, and for many in the early church. But he was the.
Speaker 2:The reason we look at the apostle Paul as like one of the, the primary apostles he and he and Peter in the Jerusalem context, is because they learned to release the gospel. They didn't, they didn't hoard it, they scattered the seed liberally, right and uh and that right. And that's the posture that I think we want to have in our local church. That I hear you saying. I trust you, I believe I'm here for you. I want to. If you need more information, I'm here for you.
Speaker 2:But we've got to work past, especially as Lutherans, right now, that the pastor is the main guy, like no, I'm one guy among many guys and I have a certain set of gifts and responsibilities word and sacrament, right, we're not taking that for granted at all, but like there's a whole other things that need to take place for the gospel to advance, felt needs to be met.
Speaker 2:So how did that develop in you and what did you learn? I guess from the business world that translated in. But then how did that heart of releasing and equipping come? I hear you saying it was. It was because, practically, I need to be a good husband and father, which is not a small thing, by the way. If I'm out every night, I'm not able to put my kids to bed in those younger years and the kids need to see their dad at home. So I get the practicality of it, the pragmatic nature of it, but was there a deeper like hardship that took place in your life, andy, that says I just can't keep doing it, being all things to all people all the time?
Speaker 1:Yeah, I mean, this is the thing I continue, I think, to learn, but it was something early on in my ministry and I honestly I can't tell you where it kind of came from, but it was really kind of an idea of like you know what? I should be putting myself out of business as a pastor. I should be giving so much ministry away. I'm looking for something new to do and inviting other people into it. I guess pride is not a good thing I get that but one of the things that I feel really blessed to be able to have done. I think I've got nine or ten guys that I started on the seminary route in one way or another through SMP over the years and have all went into the ministry in little over 20 years of ministry and right now I've got just a guy finishing up an SMP. I've got two more that want to be SMP pastors. I've got four guys that we've trained up to lead liturgy here in the church and you know we meet together and we kind of talk about best practices, how they can improve you know, and leading, and but it's it's leading and releasing them and you know this is, this is how you raise leaders up. You know is is you give them, you teach them, you train them, you give them permission and you set them loose. You know this is what Paul did and you know what. There's times when it when it kind of turned out to be a disaster. I mean there were some relationships that Paul had that he went back and kind of talked about it or wrote about it and said, you know, this guy fell away from the faith for whatever reason, and you know there was some sadness in there, maybe a little like oh, I can't believe that that happened, you know. But God will work through that too. We don't know where those guys ended up at, you know, in the long run. But you know not to do it because we're afraid it's not going to be done right and that comes from a place that isn't gospel centered, that comes from a place of fear and that fear is never attached into the gospel. So you know, I just think you know letting those.
Speaker 1:I've always wanted to put myself kind of out of the business in some ways. I mean, yes, there are things that I have to do as the pastor. You know sacraments, like you've mentioned word, but I mean we can even train guys to preach. When I was in Alaska, we were training all kinds of guys to go out and preach, because there's just nobody there and there's all kinds of preaching stations, so to speak At least there were when I was up there in Alaska that were open that if nobody was there then the word wasn't heard. So what do we do? Just say, okay, then nobody's going to hear the word. Is that even I don't even know what to tell God on that kind of an attitude?
Speaker 2:I don't either, man and you're. You're pinging something in me that that I've talked about a lot, written about a lot. The need for local churches taking responsibility for raising up leaders. That really is the heart of our ULC podcasts and it seems like such a the reason I laugh. If I wouldn't laugh I'd cry Like it seems like the most basic thing. Jesus discipled leaders, the apostles, and called them to bring the message. Second Timothy 2, find men that can teach and raise them up and find others that can teach, and then off it goes.
Speaker 2:Multiplication occurs, deep discipleship. But it's like we've missed and I'm speaking directly into the LCMS context right now We've missed like the basics in discipleship Meaning. As I follow Jesus Paul talks about this a lot, as you see Christ in me like imitate that, imitate me. And it wasn't just like his theology, which is very, very important, it was just the practicality of doing life with other leaders, the I see in you conversation. I see that you have the ability to communicate. Well, god put that in you. How about we steward that for communicating the gospel? And let's try it.
Speaker 2:It's going to be messy, it's going to be hard. I'm going to give you feedback through the journey, but human beings are remarkable. We exchange long-term. There's going to be long-term discomfort in preference for short-term pleasure, but following Jesus it's short-term discomfort. Is it easier sometimes to do it yourself? Yeah, for sure, I guess. I think it's. I don't think it's nearly as fun, andy, cause when I hear in your story there's just like a lot of joy. I share it with other people. You love it. It's the best thing ever.
Speaker 1:I love it. I mean, like I said, that's why I feel so blessed to, you know, sent like nine guys off either in the seminary or SMP in one way or another, whether I saw them through it all or got him started in it, you know. And then, like I said, now we've added Ken to that and I've got two other guys that want to go along. You know, on that ride in some way, shape or form. I mean, we're talking about having a hard time getting pastors into the ministry. Jesus really does show us the way to do it. You know, he took 12, and then they took and they took and they took, you know, and it just it grew. They raised up leaders around them when they were released.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so it is base and unfortunately in the, in the LCMS, we've outsourced leadership development even all the way up to pastors who ordained to our wonderful seminaries they're wonderful. Don't hear me saying they wonderful seminaries, they're wonderful. Don't hear me saying they're not wonderful, they're wonderful, Excellent, Excellent. But we're also struggling with adaptive leadership development challenges right now, and systemically. Again, I say this with all due respect as a member within the family we're not adapting well to the changing climate and the need for so. I got to say something I've heard and we'll. We'll move on from this subject because I can talk about it a lot. But I have heard that some leaders in the LCMS say if you can't afford a pastor and by a pastor I mean someone who's able to go through residential seminary If you can't afford a pastor, you're no longer the church. This has been said publicly. Nothing could be less Lutheran priesthood, of all believers, where the word and sacrament is, and less LCMS oriented. For goodness sake, Should we go back to Germany? Nah, where the word and sacrament is, they're the churches, and we're going to figure out the adaptive leadership development. Pastoral shortage challenges, for sure, and we did in the gospel multiplied.
Speaker 2:So I don't know, that's a sick spirit. It so I don't know. That's a sick spirit. It's not from the Holy Spirit that says that to a group of 20, 30 people that can't afford to raise them up, local or co-vocational. They're there, these elders. That's been a big thing for me too, Like just identify the elders in the church. If you've got the old school kind of committee model of governance, who are the elders in the church? Somebody there, if it's of any kind of size, I guarantee one of those men loves their local church and could get great Lutheran theology. They're not going to go residential. I don't know that SMP is something that is even allowed in their context. So can we try other things? That's all If you hear about us in Luther House. That's all we're doing. We're trying other ways and it's here to land this plane, it's working, andy, it's working.
Speaker 1:I would just like to see our leadership. You know that have invested time in our lives in the seminary experience, like I went through and like you went through, to trust us when we're out, are we trained up, Are we certified? You know, are we ordained or aren't we? And let us do ministry in our context. And the context is different, you know. I mean, florida is a whole lot different than Alaska and Alaska is a whole lot different than when I was in Minnesota. And those all have cultural, local, cultural issues that you know we can learn about as a pastor and then, you know, speak the gospel into but also help raise people up and in their context. So that's, you know. I hear you preaching, brother.
Speaker 2:Some of the arguments are that there needed to be general. We need more general pastors who are able to be sent into various contexts Right To which the answer is absolutely yeah, why not? They need to be culturally sensitive and here's something that gets missed in this conversation to the St Louis Seminary, fort Wayne, concordia Theological Seminary in Fort Wayne. Those are respective contexts. Fort Wayne is different from St Louis.
Speaker 2:A learning urban ministry in St Louis. That is a context. So we're always teaching people in context. Why can't local pastors like you and I partner with our academics, our theologians, the brain trust theological leaders which we are rich? Our bench is deep in the LCMS. Are they being stewarded to come alongside local guys like you and I, just trying to be faithful in our local context? All right, we'll land that, we'll land that plane. We could say more. Let's go deeper though, just into the need for developing habits that at one time in ministry they're like it's a flywheel effect. It's hard to get it going right, but then, once it gets going, there's so much joy that comes from establishing kind of healthy habits. We've been touching on this. I just want you to go a little bit deeper into short-term discomfort in exchange for long-term pleasure. Andy, what do you have there?
Speaker 1:Kind of personal, or are you talking church it?
Speaker 2:goes personal. It has to start personal, right, that's true, yeah. And then it moves to corporate. So, yeah, just talk from personal to corporate.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think you know personally, you know it's it's very comfortable to be in your office. We can spend a lot of time as pastors in our office and you know you can't see my bookshelf but I got this huge bookshelf over here to the side and we can read all kinds of books on leadership and you know we can go through all the Concordia commentaries and read all those and those are all wonderful things and I love I'm a reader, I love reading that stuff, you know, and having the opportunity to do deep dives. But, man, you got to get out and that's what we've been pushing here, you know, at our church. Here is I asked the question. When I became senior pastor, I was associate pastor. I said what are we known for in the community? Yeah, and this goes from personal to kind of professional, and I knew the answer. You know, sometimes when you ask the question, you know the answer. You just want to see what the people say. And they said we're known for our school. And I went yeah, we are. I said so if the church shut down, you know, and the school survived, would anybody miss the church? And I asked the other question as well. You know, if the school shut down, would it be missing the community? Oh yeah, it'd be really missing the community. And they didn't. They couldn't answer the question if the church would be missed in the community. And I went that's a problem, that's a problem for us that we've got to address, you know, because that means that we're not out in the community. We're known for the school but we're not known as a church in the community.
Speaker 1:And so we started, you know we're about four or five years into it now, you know, just having these mission partners that are local mission partners, local missions, and you know we pray for them. We give them opportunity to come in and speak at the church. We give them opportunities, you know, set up in the Narthex area, the welcome center, and they in turn give us opportunities to come and volunteer in their ministries and to give to them. And so you know we are giving for missions just skyrocketed when we started doing that, because people began to see God's bigger mission than just inside the church and inside the school. But having that opportunity to see, you know, ministry partners that are, you know, helping women with pregnancies, that are helping kids that don't have fathers, that are helping deliver groceries to people.
Speaker 1:We started a mobile food bank. We bought a big freezer truck and holds six big pallets of food and we go into the neighborhoods where we expect very often, don't we? For, like a food bank, you come in my neighborhood. They don't even have, sometimes, cars to get in our neighborhood. So now we go into their neighborhood and we make friends with them and we engage with them and then we get them serving behind the table. So it's neighbor serving neighbor, you know, and you know it's all based, you know, around just caring for one another, being good neighbors, praying for each other. You know, I've done funerals because of that, that food ministry. I've done baptisms because of that food ministry, engaged people, you know, with the gospel and in so many different ways. And it's just not me, I mean, I rarely show up there anymore. This, this is people that are, you know, have been released into ministry to go out and do this, and so you know, we've had that just a wonderful outpouring.
Speaker 1:Our mission giving probably jumped about $200,000 up from what it was previous to that because people saw ministry, they saw the need they give through the church. We give it right to them directly so we're able to track it and you know we see then we share the blessings with the congregation. You know this is how much food we've given out. This is how much money has been raised for.
Speaker 1:You know, parker Street Ministries is another one. It's kind of a local ministry and we just announced this last week. You know just how many Christmas gifts we were able to help purchase so that the parents could come in and pay for a very cheap gift, but a really nice gift. They could get their kid a bike for 10 bucks. That was an 80 or 90 dollar bike, but they had some skin in the game. So it wasn't just simply. You know, here let me give this to you because you can't give it and there's, you know there's some shame and that you know. We kind of know how that can, can work its way in. But now the parents have the opportunity to have a hand in that, and you know so. There are just so many good stories that come out of that. So I think that's one of the movements.
Speaker 2:Well one I just have to affirm you're a wonderful leader, andy, you're a gift. I'm so glad you're a pastor in the Missouri Synod, for sure. And the reason I say that is because you're leading in the style of Jesus, you're trusting, you're releasing, you're risking, you're not trying to bury your talent. And the people are the talent right In the parable of the talents. It's releasing them, it's multiplying them. And I just I just hear you talking about felt needs a lot. We talk about that a lot in our, in our congregation as well. Um, god is on a mission and God's mission has a church and and we want to be the hands and feet of Jesus. I guess let's, let's uh, go deeper in mission and confession. I got a book hopefully being released here in 25. It's a long process actually getting a book to the finish line, but nonetheless, confessing Jesus.
Speaker 2:Mission is, I think, the working title right now and the two sides of the same coin, which is confession and mission. But unfortunately in our context, in the wider LCMS, those things can be kind of pitted against one another. What kind of Lutheran are you? Are you a confessional or a missional Lutheran? And it's just like it's so oxymoronic. This is just like kind of insane, ludicrous that we're even like debating that. And then we're looking at all these kind of external signs you know, worship being one of the primary signs that show how, how confessional or how missional you are, and I think that's ludicrous as as well. So, yeah, what do you say to those in the LCMS who are putting forward these kind of distinctions? And I think it's just trying to find your identity in something other than who Jesus says you are, in your baptism, which is very Lutheran for us to talk about, like there's no external thing. God has done the work for us. So, yeah, what's your take on the confessional, missional conversation in the LCMS, andy?
Speaker 1:Yeah, I don't see how you can divide them. I, you know, I just I stepped back from that too and I just, you know, I facepalm. You know it's like what. What are we talking about here, you know, cause they're connected. You know, I, I'm a, I'm a child of God. Okay, I, I was baptized as a baby. I don't remember it, but, like this last year, we've done all kinds of baptisms of all kinds of different ages. I'm blessed in that.
Speaker 1:But I see people coming and understanding that first they're a child of God and that they have that opportunity to be called by Jesus into this faith relationship, and then they're excited about it and they don't maybe even look at the difference. They don't see a difference. I think we as pastors make that difference, you know, and we end up stumbling over our own feet. You know they just say, hey, I'm confessing that Jesus is my Lord and Savior and out of that man he gives me the opportunity to go and go out and do and be a part and be a good neighbor and live out my faith in the in the world. Because this isn't, you know, the Mount of Transfiguration. You know you got to come out of the mountain at some point and and new people to the faith. I think they get it better sometimes than than the pastors. Somehow we we forget and we think it's like you're either missional or you're confessional. No, we're both.
Speaker 2:It's mind-numbing sometimes I guess, yeah, it kind of is. So let's get specific here. Top three things that the LCMS generally needs to change. We don't like change sounds like a curse word, I think in some of our contexts generally need to change in order to release the local church to accomplish her mission, to reach people with the gospel. Let's get tangible here as we look at the culture of the LCMS.
Speaker 1:You know, I think we've got to really look at that priesthood of all believers and what Luther wrote about it, what the scriptures say about it, and stop getting in the way of that. Look, train, raise up, talk to walk alongside disciple, whatever it takes. Know, I think that's one of the things that we need to kind of like, you know, just really embrace and understand that. You know God's got that mission for us and you know he's got different people to do it. We have yeah, I hear from, yeah, I'm down here in Florida and everybody thinks this is where old people come to retire and everything like that and some point. It is is true, but I mean Florida's grown so much, you know, especially post-COVID. You know there's all kinds of young families down here and things like this.
Speaker 1:But you know we've got this rich group of guys and ladies that are sitting there in the pews that have finished up their work, you know, and they're retired and they're looking for some way to get involved and they've got a short period of window time maybe before.
Speaker 1:You know they can't physically anymore. You know they slow down more, but they want to find some value in life and they're looking for ways to get involved and we just don't, we don't buy into that, we don't bring them into that and say, hey, you know, you were a CEO at this company. You know how can you walk with us, or you ran this nonprofit. What can we learn from you? You know, to work in the church and to again to build God's kingdom, as he calls us to do, to be the hands and feet and the eyes and ears of Jesus and a mouth that speaks. You know his praises, you know, and allow them to have that voice and those hands, because they've got some time and they want. They want to get busy. So, you know, I think it's just kind of stepping out of the way. That's a that's a key one for me.
Speaker 2:Very Lutheran. I mean equipping the saints, equipping the priests of all believers. That was one of Luther's, if not his highest role. We need to get the word into every the commoners you know language, into German. It changed the course of human history, by the way that move, because that's what the word does. It changes, it changes us, but it was a. It was a broadening, not a narrowing approach. It wasn't locating everything in the. I was getting the word out into, into the marketplace, and I think we need to do that today. Anything else, though, speaking to the LCMS culture, andy.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think, you know, one of the other things that we need to do that would be really helpful, you know, is, at least from the clergy level, is trust each other. Just because it's different than your church doesn't mean it's wrong or it's bad, you know. Again, it's culturally understanding that you know what, even if it's a town over, if they do it differently, it's okay. Trust the pastor that you know. Know, and the people there that they're serving their community. And I think one of the other things is we're an aging pastorate. You know I've got less years in front of me than the 20 some that are behind me now.
Speaker 1:For me, one of my tasks that I look at right now is like I need to stand beside some of these young guys and whisper in their ear maybe you know and help them understand, because I mean, when I first came out, you know there are some brutal things that you know you experience sometimes in the pastorate and you know you don't know how to handle it. You know, and it just doesn't seem like it's right. You know there's some tough pastors out there and there's some tough churches out there, some tough people in those churches, and sometimes you know you just need to be there to say, hey, this is a season, it's going to pass, or stand in front of them and take some arrows. You know, I think that's one of the things for me is you know, how can I stand besides some of these young pastors that are coming out? The other thing is, I need to learn from them so I can help them learn, but I also need to learn from them and be able to kind of go.
Speaker 1:How can I prepare this congregation for when I'm not here anymore, because I'm not going to be here forever? And you know, I mean I think LCMS does a great job of making the pastorate not the thing for a church. Ok, you know, the church doesn't rise and fall on a pastor. It's the word of God. You know that's what we believe. So pastors come and go. But you know, I mean, how can I prepare this church for the next season and whatever that might look like?
Speaker 2:That's, that's good. Are you just to get kind of granular, are you actively mentoring pastors, younger pastors, in your circuit or district? Right now I'm in a. I have a coaching ministry and I have, I think, four pastors that I talk to once a month for a coaching conversation, kind of adult, self-directed. They get a direct kind of where they want to go and the commitments they want to make. But I also there have been different seasons when I've brought leaders from outside onto our campus and we just learn together. Maybe it's a book study or something like that, and I just remember when I was out I'm going to have this man on the podcast here in the coming couple months.
Speaker 2:But Pastor Michael Echocamp I don't know if you know Michael Andy he put together, he was at St John's in Denver at the time and he invited me in. It's a simple invitation. He didn't demand anything but come in and we're going to commit to reading together and he would bring once a month, maybe it was every other month. St John's there in urban Denver would open up their campus and it grew from like five to like 15 leaders. They weren't all pastors but younger leaders, probably 35 and under, between 25 and 35. And what I learned in community connected to Michael Echolkamp changed my life, changed my life, changed the trajectory of ministry he modeled for me, because it's not just about what you learn, it's about how, then, you take what you've learned and humbly offer it to other people. He modeled for me the balance between humility and courage, and I can't wait to tell him that and he knows I've lifted him up a number of times.
Speaker 2:But that five-year journey with Pastor Michael Lechokamp, just one season ahead of me, you know, I thought he was an old guy back then, but he was probably like my age right now. He seemed like he was, so he's probably mid forties or something like that. He's just setting a space for young learners to learn together. He was a wise mentor. So we just need more more Michael Echocamps, andy Richies who are, who are saying there's no retirement in the Bible. I want to stay connected to the next gen of leaders, right? So my dad's doing that as well. So anything more to say about how you're trying to care for the next gen of pastors and other leaders in the church, andy?
Speaker 1:You know, I think for me what I do is I submit myself to coaching. So, you know, I always have a coach that I'm working with and that I can go to and ask questions. And, you know, sometimes you know howl at the moon with a little bit when I need to do that, you know. But also have that opportunity though, to, you know, give me some checks and balances. That's led me to, you know, having, you know, a men's small group, that is, you know, just really deep into discipleship and also then, you know, to some coaching under the authority of scripture, holy Spirit, the whole shot. Yeah. If not, you know we're, we're swinging at the wind, so yeah, no, and you can't take somebody someplace.
Speaker 2:You've never, never been Right.
Speaker 1:Yeah, but you have that to yourself Exactly.
Speaker 2:I only pass on what I've first learned from from others. I see that, as we don't know a lot, we know some about Timothy's story in the Bible, yeah, but I think Paul's just calling him out in love. You've received a lot Now. Now pass it on. Be faithful, don't let anyone look down on you because of your youth, right? I think we need to give that sort of permission, confidence, courage to the next gen of leaders. So this has been so much fun. Andy, you're a gift to me, to the body of Christ.
Speaker 2:In the LCMS, you give an example of humble and courageous leadership, equipping, releasing. I hope, listener, that's what you've taken right now. You can have all of your theology so tightly knit together, right, and you know all the distinctives of what it means to be a confessional Lutheran. But if we miss on discipleship, and discipleship specifically of leaders, I think that's a big miss. That's like the big miss that Jesus is all right, he's coaching us up. Come on, get back in. Old dogs can learn new things, right, and what God is here isn't gonna take us there. There's gonna be trouble and trial, et cetera, but let's focus on deep leadership development. That's one of the reasons why the ULC is here, so if people wanna connect with you, andy, how can they do so?
Speaker 1:Yeah, you can just go to the church's website. My email address is there as well as my cell phone number. It's personal, but I mean everybody calls me on it and I give it out constantly, so that's 907-529-5644. Alaska area code Don't freak out when you dial it. And email, just in case you don't want to look it up, is aritchie R-I-T-C-H-I-E at stpaullakelandorg the newly branded Tim Allman podcast.
Speaker 2:Just email me, tallman, a-h-l-m-a-n. At cglchurchorg. It's a good day. Go and make it a great day by the power of the word and spirit. Jesus loves you so much. Risk. Do not give in to the idol of certainty. There are people who need to be developed, who are all around you just waiting for the. I see in you conversation and it's way more fun when you do that. That is the jesus way. Uh, thanks so much, andy. Uh, you're a gift to me, a dear friend. Thank you, thank you god bless tim.