The Tim Ahlman Podcast
The Tim Ahlman Podcast is your go-to resource for inspiring conversations that equip leaders to thrive in every vocation, inside and outside the church. With three primary focuses, this podcast dives deep into:
Leadership: Learn from experts across diverse fields as we explore how their insights can shape and sustain a healthy culture in the local church and beyond. Over 60% of listeners expressed a desire for practical discussions on cultivating thriving environments—and that's exactly what these conversations will deliver.
Learn: Engage in deep theological discussions with scholars who illuminate how Christ is revealed on every page of Scripture. Together, we’ll bridge theology to the realities of a post-Christian America, ensuring practical application for today’s world. This segment aligns closely with the themes of the American Reformation Podcast and resonates with the 60% of you who crave more exploration in this area.
Live: Discover healthy habits that empower leaders in all vocations to become holistically healthy. As followers of Jesus, we’re called to lead not only with faith but also with physical, emotional, and spiritual well-being.
Join Tim Ahlman as we navigate leadership, learning, and living with purpose, so you can lead with strength, wisdom, and a Christ-centered vision.
The Tim Ahlman Podcast
Can the LCMS Reach Gen Z?! with Cassie Moore
In this episode of the American Reformation podcast, host Tim Ahlman engages in a heartfelt conversation with Cassie Moore, a storyteller and youth engagement specialist. They discuss the importance of hope in the church, strategies for connecting with Gen Z, the art of listening, and the challenges of youth mental health. Cassie shares her journey in working with vulnerable youth and her efforts in suicide prevention.
The conversation also delves into the power of storytelling, particularly through Cassie's own writing in the The Gallivanter Saga, which aims to inspire adventure and connection. In this engaging conversation, Cassie Moore and Tim Ahlman explore the intersection of storytelling, faith, and youth ministry. Cassie shares her journey as an author and the impact of her work on diverse audiences. They discuss the challenges faced by youth leaders today, including the effects of COVID-19 on friendships and the importance of meaningful connections.
The conversation also delves into leadership values such as humility, resilience, and curiosity, emphasizing the need for the church to embrace diversity and reach out to the next generation with hope and truth.
Welcome to the American Reformation podcast. My name is Tim Allman and I pray. The joy of Jesus is your strength today as you get geared up for a wonderful conversation with a sister in Christ that I am just meeting for the first time. I had been connected to her as a DCE, as an author, and I love the written word too, and so I got to introduce you to Cassie Moore. Let me tell you about Cassie AH Moore.
Speaker 1:She is a storyteller grounded in a real world. Her characters in her written work are authentic, memorable, funny, reflecting a zest for adventure and a joy for life. She's published both fiction and nonfiction books we're going to talk about that that are fast-paced, full of great stories, very, very relatable characters. A longtime educator she was a DCE Director of Christian Education in the Lutheran Church Missouri Synod for 15 years. She's now serving in full-time coaching and consulting, mostly with ministries looking to engage the next generation. She's a youth re-engagement specialist in her Oregon County. So she's got one foot in the sacred space and one foot in kind of the secular space as well. So this is Cassie Moore. How are you doing, cassie? Great to be with you today.
Speaker 2:Yeah, thanks for having me. I'm excited to be here.
Speaker 1:Yeah, we're going to have a good time. So, as you look at the broader landscape of the church and I love that you're kind of in and out at the same time Jesus came for the world, right. So the church doesn't, I think, shouldn't have this kind of militant against the world posture today. But we're in the world and we love the world. Why? Because Jesus loves the world. So, as you look at how the church kind of presents herself to the world, how are you praying for a reformation in the broader American Christian church today, Cassie?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think I can tell, even though we're just meeting for the first time, we are on the same page with this. I look at the world around me and I see beauty and I see God's creation. But I see a lot of Christians are struggling with hopelessness and I look at our faith and say we have incredible hope. We're dealing with a world of people that are broken and are struggling, especially our younger generations, where I do a lot of work, and I think there's tremendous potential when we talk about what we can offer as the church, as the body of Christ. There is tremendous potential for, you know, both genders, for all ages, to really come together and to connect and share in that hope that comes from Christ.
Speaker 2:You know I work like you said. I work for my county. One of my jobs is I work with students that are completely disenchanted with school, with their family, with life. It's typically kids that are failing out of school. They're chronically absent from classes. So my job as an adult is to come in as a total stranger and to try to connect, to literally win them over, usually via text, but then sometimes in person and just try to give them some hope for the future, for their own lives, Cause often they're coming out of really messy situations. Um, and I look at these young people and I see I see this in the adults that I deal with as well there's, there's hopelessness, and our opportunity as the body of Christ is to share hope and to share that piece of Christ.
Speaker 1:That's so good. What kind of tactics, words of wisdom do you have for people who look at Gen Z today? It's quite a calling, I commend it, it's so, so good, but say I don't know how to connect. It seems like I'm not on social that much and I don't start relationships via text like you're talking about. Like, what does it look like for the average everyday? Say, say, boomer to Gen Xer you know, right in the 50s? Like, how do they start to engage your teenager that may be disillusioned with life? What words of wisdom do you have for them?
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's a great question. I love that you're asking it. I think we're in a unique moment in world history of because for the first time, we have four to five generations in a workplace that are working together and we have never seen that before. It's a it's a new challenge, but I think I would always recommend start with start with curiosity, start with asking questions. Certainly, you may not have somebody in your life regularly that's a young person, but you encounter young people. You know I go up and get coffee and everybody in there is under 20 who's serving. So be curious about the world of other people.
Speaker 2:You know I'm not that old, but the world has changed so much for high schoolers from the time that I was in high school until now. It is a different reality that our students are contending with and there are a lot of challenges. It feels in a lot of ways like we're in the Wild West and we're navigating new things that we have not faced before. So I think to be very open as adults and to just be honest and be curious. Pro tip they don't really care about your stories until they know that you care about them. So if you can show some interest in them. Um, when I'm connecting with kids, it is literally. I am just asking question after question after question and showing that, you know, in this world where people are very polarized and there's a lot of noise, um, at the end of the day, we want to be known and we want to be valued and, if I can show that as an adult, it opens those doors very quickly.
Speaker 1:Are there any? Because I don't think. I think we've lost the art of listening and asking deep questions and I don't know if it's lost, it's dormant right now in our culture. Are there any words of wisdom that you have for learning Because I think it is a learned skill to ask deeper questions, and any tips for like, what kind of questions would I even start with to engage a young person?
Speaker 2:Yeah, number one, put your phone down, because I think that is the biggest source of distraction in our modern lives. I think to ask deep questions you have to really focus and you have to really care and I really intentionally. Since middle school I realized listening is a gift that I can give other people. I'm a very outspoken personality, I'm a kind of a bold person, but I just learned early on that people are people, are dying for somebody to be interested in them and if that's a, if that's a need that's out there, I can meet that with my own gift. So I think it's a, it's an attitude and I think it's. It takes intentionality, it takes looking around and saying maybe I have something I really want to share, but you know I'm, I am here for this other person and to just you know.
Speaker 2:It doesn't have to be you go right into deep conversation, but certainly I think our young people are primed for it. There is not a lot of depth in this social media driven world. So when you have that opportunity to go a little bit deeper, it may not be the conversation you have with your you know your bagger at your grocery store, but certainly you know you're sitting around the table somewhere. I have engaged with a whole lot of people and it sounds sort of creepy, but like sitting in coffee shops or sitting on an airplane and just chatting casually. I've been on airplanes where literally I've ended up talking to somebody for hours and having really deep you know tearful conversation on their part. So at the end of the day, just go in knowing that people are, people, want to be heard, and that's a gift I think that you can give to other people.
Speaker 1:I 100% agree. I think it's an attitude of noticing people. I'm right there with you. I'm that guy that sits in the plane and tries to start the conversation and like I was I was, I batted 500 on a recent flight out and fly back Like the first guy didn't want to engage and then the next guy, a little bit younger, did and we didn't. It wasn't weird. We talked for maybe 20 minutes and then I got my little nap in or did some reading. Then we re-engaged, kind of as we were landing and whatnot, and it was, it was good.
Speaker 1:I think it's just the art of noticing people, wherever you're at, head up, eyes up, you know, and that's where the phone kind of comes in and and notice people and smile the nonverbals. It sounds weird, but like that goes a long way too. And I love actually talking to young kids that are obviously in a first time job and ask it up How's it going, are you enjoying it? And just kind of brighten them up while you're doing a good. You know that kind of that kind of stuff. And it sounds like grandpa, father, cheesy, like yeah, I'm that guy now, but I don't really care, I think, if you can make them smile even at how dorky, goofy you are.
Speaker 1:I think that there's some that goes a long way as well. I'm also a high school football coach, cassie, and getting to know those young men over a long period of time say four months pretty intensely together, loving, challenging them, that's the way I'm trying to pass it on to the next generation of leaders in our world, and I get to do a weekly during the season, a weekly Thursday devotion and giving them permission to see pastors and adults as normal and hopefully funny. I sometimes will even do. I'm a big Dumb and Dumber fan, cassie.
Speaker 2:Oh, me too.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, sometimes we'll even even do. I'm a big dumb and dumber fan Cassie, me too. Yeah, yeah, so every year now I do, because this is how I made friends when I was little kind of geeky, uh, but I would. I would do a full one person rendition of different scenes from dumb and dumber. I can't I'm thinking of a line right now that I could, that I could pull just when I thought you couldn't possibly be any dumber. You go and do something like this and totally redeem yourself.
Speaker 2:You know, I mean just doing scenes like that and a lot of the kids actually look at Dumb and Dumber.
Speaker 1:It's a cult classic now in many of their circles. So, yeah, I think we're just trying and thank you for being an advocate to try to engage, especially with kids that are hopeless. So how did you come to that kind of a calling in your life, especially engaging kids, but engaging kind of the most hopeless, kind of vulnerable kids in our culture? I'd love to hear that story.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's a funny sort of God's fingerprint on the situation, but honestly it just came about by me being friendly and outgoing and chatting with random people about like hey, this is my background, this is what I'm passionate about. A year ago now here in Hood River, you know I'm in a place where churches are not quite how they are in the South. I had done ministry in the South for many years. Church is a much more accepted part of culture. But moving to a new place it is not quite the same sort of thing. It's a big mission field where I am. So I ended up chatting with some people in town and they literally, like in one conversation, said oh, I've got, like I've got some openings where I work and we would love to consider offering you something you know working with young people because you're obviously very passionate about it. So it sort of overnight turned into this like hey, we want to pull you into this and I sort of walked into it just following where the doors were opening and it's been a really challenging sort of a job. But with that then I was, I was tasked with working on a short term suicide prevention project for my, my sixy area. So I live in the Columbia River Gorge in Oregon, which is a beautiful place, but unfortunately we have a high rate of mental health issues and a lack of counselors in some places.
Speaker 2:So I ended up bringing all of this sort of work with Gen Z, work with students, into this big community assessment that I've been doing with many businesses, many organizations, and it's been pretty unique because where I sit is this intersection of church and secular.
Speaker 2:I was able to engage all of the pastors in our town, all of the youth leaders in our town, every public school, every private school. You know everybody from the police and the sheriff's department to like the county coroners and nonprofits, but then also all of these students that I know. So, for the first time really something that young people are not usually asked to be a part of a community assessment in a formal way I made a really big push to say we really need them to be a part of this. We're talking about their generation and they're going to be a part of the change that we hopefully see, so we need to have them represented and be at the table with us. So, yeah, it's been. It's been an interesting sort of a path and I don't know where God is leading in the future, but I know that I just I follow along every step that he prepares for me.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's. Thank you for listening to the call of Jesus here. What strategies are you putting together in that six county region to to prevent suicide, specifically in our?
Speaker 2:in the report was to analyze what is everybody doing right now in the field of suicide prevention, post-vention or intervention, because most people are doing they're doing something they don't even know what everybody else is doing. So this is a kind of a groundbreaking report. It's the first time in our area that everybody has come to the table and anybody doing work here knows about each other and they're resourced together. But some of the things that have really come across is isolation is a huge issue in our community and at large in the country. You know the stats show that isolation and loneliness is way up for young people.
Speaker 2:You know, again, like I've said, I'm not that old, but in just the span of one generation, from when I was in high school to high schoolers now, they spend on average 24 hours less a month in contact with anybody, and that counts.
Speaker 2:You know their parents, their friends, their significant others. So the norm has become to be more isolated and a little bit more, you know, socially withdrawn and we're seeing the effects of that in mental health, unfortunately, especially with adolescents. So that has been a big finding. I think another big finding is just the disconnect that occurs naturally with teenagers and adults. But that is showing that. You know there's some repercussions to that that we're seeing, and when students don't have something you know to really engage themselves, especially like after school activities or you know friendship groups or connections with their community, they do sometimes you know they're at risk of sinking into some darkness. So and then you know the need for just qualified mental health professionals is a huge thing for us and that's something that, unfortunately, we don't have a whole lot of in our particular area. We're working to change that.
Speaker 1:The odds are high that some listener certain percentage of listener they have children or grandchildren that are struggling with mental health concerns. Maybe it's anxiety, depression, suicidal ideation, et cetera. What words of care and love and wisdom do you have for for parents who are walking that that very, very hard road?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think yes, you're absolutely right, because the stats would indicate that your listeners you know a good portion of people are struggling with this, and this is actually something I do a lot when I speak to youth conferences. I will go through some exercises and end up having people kind of anonymously show how many people in the room are struggling with, you know, doubt in their faith or they're struggling with depression or anxiety or suicidal feelings, because we need to know that we're not alone and I think shame has a strong grip on us, especially if you look at our evangelical world. We don't like to admit that we struggle, especially if we have that Germanic sort of like stiff upper lip attitude which is, you know, it's part of my heritage, so I get it. But all of the research shows that there is tremendous healing and growth that happens when you are talking to a counselor, even when you're in group counseling, when you share literally. The stats on suicide prevention are stunning because it shows the more that we talk about it openly, it actually decreases the risk of somebody making a poor decision and taking their life. And it's it's counterculture, right Like it's, it's one of those things that's it's very hard to talk about, and it's really hard if it's somebody close to you, but the research indicates it's.
Speaker 2:It is something that is a huge issue, especially with our young people, and we have to, we have to talk openly about it. I talk about it openly from the stage. Every time I speak to young people, and I make an open invitation to say if you're struggling and you have nobody else to talk to, please talk to somebody right Like your youth leader, your pastor, your parent, your coach. But if you have nobody else to talk to, come talk to me after this and we will walk through it together. So you are not alone, and literally every conference I've been to, at least in the last year and a half, I've had at least one student come forward and say I want to, I want to kill myself and I don't know. I've never talked about this before, and we walk through it together.
Speaker 2:So there's tremendous hope. You have to. You have to be open about it, though, and you have to be nonjudgmental as an adult. When you hear that from somebody, whether it's a friend or it's a, it's a young person, you have to train yourself to. You know I'm not going to respond, I'm not going to. Our instinct is to lean back, you know, and get really tight and get really nervous. But we just were tasked again with just with listening and being compassionate and being open, and that's a special calling that we can offer, you know, to the world right now.
Speaker 1:Amen, amen. So to double down on what you say if you are in that spot personally or someone close to you is in that spot personally, please, please, reject Satan's and it is a satanic move toward isolation and move to your local church, local health care provider, et cetera to get what you need. Call up a friend, let them know what you're struggling with and, as a longtime pastor, I've just seen the growth that comes out of confession. Hey, I'm not okay, that's okay, I'm going to make it. And then we're not my family or whatever, we're not okay. Okay, I'm going to make it. And then we're not my family or whatever. We're not okay, but we're going to make it All of life.
Speaker 1:It appears to me now, in 43 years for me, all of life is suffer, survive, thrive, suffer, survive, thrive. There's going to be pain, there's going to be trouble, there's going to be the unexpected loss, tragic, et cetera. The diagnosis that's just the way it is. But praise be to God. We're connected to, loved by, mobilized by and sent into the world by, the crucified and risen Jesus, the one who gives us hope, the one who connects us to a bigger story than just ourselves.
Speaker 1:Right, because Satan says you're all alone. Jesus says I'm right there with you. Better than that, I make you my dwelling place. Your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit. And now I'm reaching out, we're reaching out. Jesus tells us to other people to lock arms as the body of Christ and for then you to have that purpose, that meaning to use your gifts to bless the world and to give people, ultimately, hope, a bigger story than they're seeing in their small little world. Right, you're a part of a big, big God who has a big, big story of love for the world, centered in Jesus. So let's talk about your love of the written word and your love of storytelling. How did you fall in love with the art of storytelling and the written word, cassie?
Speaker 2:Oh boy, I almost didn't fall in love with the art of storytelling and the written word. I really struggled to learn how to read as a kid. Which is funny, I've always been a good student, but there's something about going back to first grade. I really struggled. One of my earliest memories is having my school book in first grade. My reading struggled. One of my earliest memories is like having my school book in first grade, my reading book that was assigned as homework, and chucking it across the room and saying like this is stupid, I hate reading. And it was.
Speaker 2:I credit my dad. My dad was wonderful. He saw I was struggling and he he, instead of pushing me, he went out and got a copy of the babysitters club, which I don't even know how he knew about this book series, but he went and he purchased it. He sat on the edge of my bed at one night and he read a couple of chapters out loud to me and he closed it then and he said if you want to keep going, you can, but you know you can read it on your own. And he did that a few times and it hooked me and I just learned, you know, through pushing myself and challenging, to kind of work. Through that hesitation, I learned how to read and I have just never stopped reading.
Speaker 2:I'm a constant. I constantly have at least three books that I'm reading. And I'm one of those kind of history nerds. I read a lot of autobiographies and history books and fiction. So I constantly have some different genres that I'm working through. But yeah, I went from not being able to read very well to within a year I was almost getting kicked off the bookmobile bus because I was checking out too many books at once because I read very quickly. So I very quickly became proficient and I was carrying out these stacks of books and they said you really can't keep checking out this many books, cassie, it's not fair. So I ended up recruiting my friends, like, hey, check out these four books for me.
Speaker 1:Get this for me, please. We spread it out.
Speaker 2:So yeah, and then I ended up writing just through school. I ended up writing for school newspapers. I started a class newspaper in fourth grade and then worked in the school newspaper. You know, middle school and then high school was editor of the school newspaper and then just sort of walked right from that through college into publishing professionally. You know, working with the Lutheran Church, missouri Synod and doing some of their youth resources and then speaking, sort of spun out of that. People would read things and then contact me and say, hey, could you come and talk to us about this? So yeah, just it's been a beautiful journey that I've just really I've enjoyed. I never would have guessed this when I was. You know, if I look back to my little self, I never would have guessed that this would be a part of my life.
Speaker 1:Oh, the places we'll go, the people we'll see, the lives we'll touch. It's so, so good. So what is it about? A well-told story that changes the human heart.
Speaker 2:Cassie, I'm walking through this world and having these emotions, dealing with these challenges, and I'm not the only one that has faced these things. I'm not the only one that is struggling through this and to me, you know, there were there were times in my life where I was, I really struggled with loneliness, or I moved a couple of times when I was younger. So for a long time books were really that was my escape. Those are my friends. Before I connected with other people around me and there's tremendous comfort that comes from that.
Speaker 2:I think you see a lot of times a different side of an author. But you also, you know, you see you see little hints of hope in the books that you read. And again, that's assuming that you're not just filling your head with like smut and fluff which there's a lot of that out there in the in the world, um, but good stories, I think they. They remind us we're not alone, um, we have a human condition and we're all on this planet together, right, um, and we're working through stuff together. So I just see a lot of hope in the written word.
Speaker 1:No doubt. So you have a series called the gallivanter saga. What were you primarily interested in portraying? And I've yet to take a look at it, but I've looked at your website and I know kind of the general plot. Is it connected to there? It is there, it is. Is it connected in some way, shape or form over the course of the saga to the hero's journey at all, course of the saga, to the hero's journey at all? Um, have you, because I'll just I'll just tell you what the hero's journey is and anybody can google this up. There's a whole bunch of graphics on it.
Speaker 1:But the hero's journey is roughly the call to adventure and then some sort of supernatural aid that gets provided and removing from the known to the unknown. Uh, there are other kind of mentors who come alongside, helpersers as you start the journey of transformation and you're working through challenges and temptations, and then some sort of an abyss or death and rebirth kind of moment comes and then it starts the upward journey. It's kind of a cycle here. It starts the upward journey of transformation to kind of redemption and atonement, to a return, maybe even back to the place where they started, but you return changed, 100% changed. So is your story kind of based in some way shape or form, and tell what your gallivantra saga is really all about. Cassie, and I love that you're writing this for young people Well, it's not just for young people, for older people too, but yeah, anybody who loves an adventure that's who it's for amen love it yeah, no it.
Speaker 2:It does have some definite elements of that, that hero's journey which you know most most good stories have some of that in some effect. Um, I, for me, I realized, even really going through grad school, I realized like I have some personal values of adventure and risk taking and I have been a reader my entire life. So many of the things that I was reading, I was, I was looking at and saying, you know, I just need, I need a female Indiana Jones. I don't see myself reflected in a lot of the literature, a lot of the movies that I see, I just I don't see myself there. A lot of the literature, a lot of the movies that I see, I just I don't see myself there. What you, you often see is, you know, women that are mean and spiteful and angry and jaded or they're too soft and that just that just has never been me. So that really prompted, like the subject matter for me. I actually, the very first page of my you know, my writing journal is I, before I even started this manuscript, my, I wrote down why and I wrote down, women need an Indiana Jones to. You know, women's literature often is really it's very, it's very specific and typecast. So, yeah, the book series it's it's not just for women.
Speaker 2:I have, in fact, a number of old guys that have read this series and just absolutely loved it, which is really fun to see. You know, I've got some guys that are in their 80s that have read this book series and just adore it because it's about Model Ts, so there's cars and there's action, there's lots of adventure. But the book series it's about a girl who she drops out of boarding school in the 1920s and she joins this all male team and they're trying to be the first people in the world to travel through every country in their Model Ts and it's a competition with another team that are, you know, they're the rivals from, from Canada and they're they're starting out. They go through Spain and North Africa, which is really a. Honestly, I did a lot of a lot of historical research.
Speaker 2:It was really a treacherous place to go through. It still is, but it's a really treacherous place to go through. So they encounter all sorts of obstacles and challenges and there's sort of this very hopeful ending, but it does not come without just moments where you say like they're never going to be able to survive these things. So it really it captures just a spirit of adventure and nostalgia and sort of that romantic 1920s era, but it's really all about just connection and identity and knowing who you are and finding who you are and finding yourself sometimes in the midst of just perilous situations that you don't expect. So yeah, it's a. It's a long series. I've got six books written, so two came out this year, two next year and then two the following year, and I'm just sitting down to work on the seventh one Come on.
Speaker 1:Who are you working with as your publisher?
Speaker 2:So that one is Indie Published. I work a lot with my nonfiction with Concordia Publishing House, but that one, you know, I have the story in mind and that has been my like I I've done enough publishing. I know what I'm doing at this point.
Speaker 1:So yeah, yeah, good for you, it's been fun. So you get. You get to protect the, the story and how many books are going to be in the saga, if you don't mind me asking.
Speaker 2:I mean at least six, cause I got six done. Okay, there's no, there's no limit to it, and that's been the really fun part. It's been so well received by different ages and people literally all over the country. I've seen photos of it's stocked in libraries and bookstores and kids have it on the beach and older couples have it together. They're talking about it at dinnertime. So, yeah, it's really been fun to see that.
Speaker 1:Is there a faith element to it at all? How does how does a relationship with God, spirituality, et cetera, enter into the story, or does it not? And I'm not, I wouldn't be judging either way, I'm just curious, yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's, I would say you. You will see just the morals and, I think, the character of those characters themselves. You will see somebody is writing this who has a deep faith and a deep, just love of humanity and an understanding of things like forgiveness and redemption and hope. But the books are not explicitly Christian. You know, it really hits a different kind of the audience of normally people that you know it's. It really hits a different kind of a different kind of the audience of normally people that you know have read a lot of my stuff and I really I'm on both sides, kind of like with my job I'm on both sides where I have a foot in one world.
Speaker 2:That's just fiction, it's just adventure and it's just fun and it's clean fiction. But it is not, it's not Christian fiction. But then I have books, you know like I just had a book come out this week, a devotion book for young women. So there are things that are really, you know, profoundly faith-based that I put out there. But at the end of the day it's just using a passion area that you know God gave me the gift of communicating and writing, so I just I lean into it.
Speaker 1:I love that there are so many people like you. Right now we're trying to get creative, to reach the hearts of not just the next generation but pre-Christians, those who are on the way to Jesus, and build bridges of understanding, agreement with where we kind of collectively whether you follow Jesus or not kind of see the world is broken and in need of redemption, in need of a better story to be told. We're actually in partnership with Red Braille Studios, cassie. We're right in the fundraising process of putting together our first full length film. It's called Wretch, like Me man. If anybody wants to hear more about it, it'll be going live fundraising, but we'd love to get you on the early kind of investor side of this. We're looking to raise $500,000 to put together a Christian.
Speaker 1:This sounds I shouldn't even use Christian. It's a horror film. It's a horror film that has a faith bent to it. So sin is darkness, sin is wretched we're all wretches indeed and it's like a monster. Sin is a monster that comes out of us. So it's a man's journey through the ups and mostly downs and his struggle to pass on a lot of his sin, his dysfunction, to his adolescent daughter and play with time a little bit. The script has actually been reviewed by a lot of different and this is my first kind of production journey a lot of people that say ways it can be better and ways that it's rocking. And a lot of people are very optimistic about this hitting in the secular space because the Christian, you're not going to initially say wow, that's a Christian film, because there's swearing, there's guns, there's some really uncomfortable topics that are put forward.
Speaker 1:But I was talking with a professor and he said he's connected to the gospel of Mark and he this is David Lewis and he said you know what the gospel of Mark is? A horror, a horror show. How many, how many demons are popping out all over the place and you know exorcisms et cetera. Like there was some, there was some wild stuff. So this is our attempt to portray the gospel and hope in in the midst of people walking through profound, profound darkness um, profound, you use the word kind of risk. Life is risky. How does Satan kind of let's pivot there how does Satan kind of use this desire for safety to kind of tamp down, especially in our young people that call to adventure and we live? There's lots of different kind of ways that authors and kind of sociologists are trying to work through this struggle. Shout out to the Anxious Generation that book. If you haven't picked it up yet, you've read it, cassie.
Speaker 2:I assume I've read it. Yep, read it. I recommended it, yep.
Speaker 1:You've read everything.
Speaker 2:I knew you would have read that.
Speaker 1:But I mean his basic premise is we've been too careful in protecting our kids in real life adventure out in the real world, you know so physicality and we've been underprotective in the online space, and I couldn't agree more. So what is your thought about how we give kids like the appropriate amount of risk out in our world today that wants to helicopter? Or you could say what is it? The mower parent just mow down every, every problem for our kid. What are your thoughts there?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I. My thought is I I never forget the fact that we are raising many adults. Everything we do, we are, we are raising the next generation right the the future. They're little adults right now and I treat them with that respect and I think I approach that with a sense of encouragement and challenge. And I can think of so many times in my life where I've worked with young people and I've questioned like I don't know if they're capable of this. What comes to mind just off the top of my head is a number of years ago I was serving in Florida as're capable of this.
Speaker 2:What comes to mind just off the top of my head is a number of years ago I was serving in Florida as a director of Christian education and I had a pretty big youth group and somebody suggested to me hey, would you like to bring some Christmas presents to this pediatric nursing home that I'm doing some work in right now? I'm just volunteering there for some nursing classes, but these kids never leave this center and we, you know I think it'd be fun to bring them some Christmas presents. And I agreed without knowing what I was walking into. But I brought 50 middle schoolers with me to host a Christmas party at a pediatric nursing home that had about 50 residents, about 50, you know young kids that most of them were confined to hospital beds or wheelchairs. They were nonverbal, they.
Speaker 2:You know young kids that most of them were confined to hospital beds or wheelchairs. They were nonverbal, they, you know they. They had no ability to to do a lot of the things that my students walking in were right, like they're able bodied kids and as the leader, I just I walked in and I had tried to prepare my youth group, but I was just floored and I thought I have really bungled this. There's no way these kids don't you know, they don't drop the ball, they're gonna somebody's gonna say the wrong thing, somebody's gonna screw this up, it's gonna. You know I'm gonna traumatize these kids, but they were incredible and that that showed me a new just, the power of young energy and young leaders and what happens when we get out of the way and just, you know, we're in the background, right, we support, we encourage, we put them in successful positions. But sometimes we got to just walk away and say you know, the Holy Spirit's working in you too and they blew me away that day. They formed connections that some of those young people actually grew up to be pediatric nurses in special needs homes because they were so touched by that.
Speaker 2:And I look at that and say, you know, as the leader, I would have maybe limited what they could do and instead of just getting out of the way, I saw God work in incredible ways. So I think you know, there's a strong spirit of fear and a strong spirit of distraction in our world today. But when we position people to be aware of those, that's the first step right, and then sometimes move out of the way to just say you know, use your gifts. God gave each one of us gifts. I'm going to be there to help you figure out your gifts and then use your gifts.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I love that. Yeah, I love that. In your years as a DCE, from when it started to now, what has changed? What are our youth pastors, DCEs, having to work through today? That man, 15 years ago, it just wasn't even in your purview at all.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I could. I could talk for an hour about this, but I won't. I'll. I'll summarize Um, it is a very challenging world to do youth ministry in and, and that's in, the church and with outside of the church.
Speaker 2:It's a hard world. We're dealing with a record level of levels of polarization. Um, we're dealing with record levels of distraction. Um, it is a difficult world to do youth ministry and it's never been easy.
Speaker 2:And there are some core, I think, core pieces that every generation of young people they struggle with the same things. They struggle with identity and questions about their future and that the fear of what's ahead, and those are just universal things that we can understand and know that every generation struggles with this, that struggle for independence. But there are new challenges that our young people encounter and there's just a tremendous amount of fear A lot of our young people are. They're really terrified about school. You know school shootings and mass shootings. It's the number one fear of Gen Z and Gen Alpha. You know over 75% of them will say like this is my number one terror and I've, you know, I've personally I've dealt with a student that went into lockdown with a suspected shooter at her school and it was terrifying for me as this. You know, as the youth leader, that was not even at the site. So there's just there's a tremendous amount of noise that we have to cut through and distraction, and I would say we have to really hone in on connecting one-on-one, which is a new challenge that we have not always had.
Speaker 2:You know, it used to be in the good old days of youth ministry. You could buy a couple of pizzas, throw on a movie and kids would show up. That is not our reality anymore. You have to show why what you're doing has any value, because they have a lot of options. They have a million things that they could do instead of showing up to church or showing up to youth groups. So you have to really make sure it's clear you know we're doing meaningful life together and the things that we do.
Speaker 2:Sure, we have fun things, but there are also times where we talk about the deep stuff, because that's what Gen Z and Gen Alpha are really there. They want the deep stuff, and it's not that we can't have fun, it's that we have to give meaning to our fun. We have to explain you know we're doing this because we want to really have life together. So you show the why of why you're doing. You know why does it matter, why should you be there? And you have to be aware too that friendship groups are just statistically so much smaller than they've been. You know, I remember back in the early days of youth ministry I'd say you know, here's, here's five flyers for each of you. Invite all of your friends. That's not the reality anymore. Most kids have like one, two, maybe three friends if they've got a big friendship group. That's been one of the profound changes post COVID that we've seen.
Speaker 1:Yeah, can we pause on that? Yeah, yeah, why is that? I have not heard everything else you said and this is not to be disrespectful. I mean, I've heard a lot of this, but like that one right there. Why is that today? And what's the impact of social media? I think a lot of people blame social media for that kind of lack of depth and lack of quantity of friends, because I'm right there with you, like I had, and I played sports and stuff like that, so that's maybe a little bit different, but my like core good friend circle in high school males was probably like four or five. You know that I would like get together almost every weekend with these guys, and there would be a larger group too, some kind of gathering party or whatever. So, yeah, why is it? One or two at the most for some kids today?
Speaker 2:Yeah, and I think there are a lot of factors in this, and I'll hedge this by saying anything post COVID. We're still actively studying.
Speaker 1:You know, we're only a couple of years removed from that.
Speaker 2:So we're we're making assumptions and we're making connections in real time. So it'll be an interesting field to watch, cause even, like I was just reading, the field of, like, secondhand trauma is just being studied kind of for the first time and they're they're expecting just crazy developments in the scientific studies in that. So back to just to sort of this isolation in this smaller friendship group that we're seeing in young people, I think that a lot of it comes from some friendship shuffle shuffles, some relationship shuffles. That happened in COVID, you know, and it was. It was a complete disruptor, especially for our young people. It completely changed friendship dynamics, routines, you know who you're talking to, who you're connecting with. I think that's a major factor in it.
Speaker 2:I think, too, we we are seeing the effects of a very polarized political culture, unfortunately, where I was just reading a study a few weeks ago that adults were saying overwhelmingly, you know, a huge percentage of adults saying I really want my kid to have more friends, they need more friends. And my kids are saying they need more friends but they have a really low friendship rate. And one of the major factors in that is if your parents, you know, if the parents perceive that this other parent of this kid doesn't believe the same things that we do, whether that's political or religious. They don't want that friendship to blossom, which is funny because the research actually shows that even with diverse friendships, that is really beneficial, especially to young people. So your kids can be friends with somebody that doesn't look like them, doesn't sound like them, doesn't talk like them, doesn't vote like them. That's fine Because the research shows that actually that creates a well-rounded person.
Speaker 2:So we don't want to discourage that. Of course you want to be having conversations at home about you know what do we believe and why do we believe this. But it's not a you know you can't dictate what somebody's path in life is going to be. You can only prepare them for the path that they may face someday, and it may be a challenging one. It may be one that takes them into places that you have not been. So we can't artificially cut off our young people at the knees. We have to give them the tools to go in with confidence and go in as adventurous souls into what might be ahead.
Speaker 1:That's so good. Any other things that have changed that people adults should be aware of today as we try to care for our youth.
Speaker 2:I would say it's a difficult time to be a youth leader, especially to work in any capacity with young people, and I see this actually in both the churches that I work with and also the secular workplace that I occupy. We have a very sort of elusive in terms of commitment, an elusive generation that there's not really a whole lot of respect for adults, and that's a whole, nother long conversation why that is. But I think that there's there's a loss of sort of some respect there where teenagers especially just say like I'm not going to commit, I'm not going to show up to things and unless you make the effort as the leader, those kids will just not show up. And a lot of times that effort looks like you know, it looks like you're on your phone. My phone is a huge ministry tool and people have different ways they use it. But honestly I have, I have students that you know I've worked with thousands of teenagers.
Speaker 2:Everybody has my phone number. I have students that for years, years after they've had me as their youth leader, they still contact me and they, they talk through the tough stuff of life and they ask my advice and they, they, you know I just had two phone calls this week with former students that are just. They're facing life decisions and trying to decide how to navigate. But I also will have young people that they text me and I've never I don't even know their name. Sometimes they just will say I got your phone number from my friend and they said that you're an adult that'll listen. Or like I just need help. Can I just can I talk to you and I will.
Speaker 2:I will counsel like cold call kind of young people and that's not something that's quantifiable. Your elder board can't look at you as a youth leader and say, oh so you had 15 kids in youth group at this event, but then you talk to 35 kids you know over the course of the last couple months and counseled like it's a hard thing to quantify. So there needs to be some understanding across the board with teams now to say ministry doesn't look the same. You can't always just count heads in a room and say whether you're successful or not. You have to look at some different ways that you're influencing people and that's hard. It's hard when it's not what we're used to. It's hard when you have to come up with new systems of how do you quantify success. But at the end of the day, we're in a little bit of a new era, and that's okay. God is still here with us, right? So it's okay to be in that space.
Speaker 1:So what is the?
Speaker 1:and I'm asking this as a pastor with three high schoolers in my house, I have three teenagers right. Thanks for the prayers. No, they're all amazing. They're all amazing, but what's the balance I guess I'm trying to articulate this well between attractional this is probably the first, not the first time you've heard this between the attractional kind of event it's fun, there's a sense of risk, there's games, there's some discipleship, small group, like how is that merging with what I hear you saying? The life on life, not quantifiable, one-on-one going to where they're at. Is it a both and or is it an either or? Maybe that's a good way to frame it up, cassie.
Speaker 2:I think you need both and I think it is in everybody's context. You are the ministry expert where you are right. So you know your community, you know the students that are walking through the doors. You know how, the, the, how to reach the people around you. You have to trust. You have to trust that and trust that the Holy spirit is going to work through your own creativity, through your team.
Speaker 2:Um, I think you use the attractional to to segue into meaningful and deep, and that comes with intentionality.
Speaker 2:Um, you know, I've I've seen youth groups that they just have fun and games and silly and then at the end they tack on like a five minute, like OK, now everybody sit down, we're going to read this devotion, and there's no, there's no real heart behind that. Instead, when you speak to and even if it's not you speaking, when you ask a lot of questions of young people, they always come through. I teach all the leaders that I work with, you know, you, you should talk about 25% of the time. You should be letting your students talk 75% of the time, because that's how they process, that's how they find community, that's how they walk through these issues, that's how they're going to walk away, feeling like they're heard, they're understood, and that's what this younger generation is really looking for. They're not looking to be talked to, they want to be included in the mission, and that's a shift that we have to make. So, yeah, I think, use both and be creative about it. There's no right or wrong way to do ministry.
Speaker 1:You're a leadership consultant. Last set of questions here. This has been so fun. You're a leadership consultant as you're working with churches and organizations. What are your let's talk leadership podcasts of the Unite Leadership Collective. So what are your top values as a leader right now that you wish to pass on to young and old? Cassie?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think humility is a big one for me is a big one for me. There have to be moments where, as a leader, you admit I don't know, or I'm not sure, or I need to learn more on this. And it doesn't hurt your credibility when you're not the expert on everything. We can't be right, we can't be. So we have to be humble and we have to, I think, submit to God's direction in our lives, go back to scripture and ground ourselves there. And I think another big one for me is resilience.
Speaker 2:It is hard to be a leader. It requires grit, it requires times where you work through your own doubt over something. You work through your own sort of the wounds that may be there. But at the end of the day, we are tasked with a special joy, a special challenge to lead other people, and that requires humility and resilience. And I think really the third one for me would be curiosity. And it's a big, wonderful world out there and I want to just keep growing and learning until I die. You know I, I it's funny, I think about this a lot. I wrote this book series about Model T travel and just in the research that I did, I ended up taking Model T driving school and then I actually bought a Model T a couple of weeks ago. So I have been learning. I'm not mechanical, I don't know anything about car to drive.
Speaker 2:That's a hard car to drive, yeah, yeah 99 years old, I had to do a lot of, you know, steep learning curve. All the pedals are completely different from a modern car. I live in a hilly town because it's a mountain town, so driving it here is like sheer terror, honestly. But it so much of it for me was going back to just my values of adventure and risk taking. And you know, know, I take a healthy risk and I said this is something that I would love to get into before the old guard, you know, before they pass away and all this knowledge of antique cars dies with them. Um, this is something that I want to get into. So, yeah, never be afraid to be curious and to take a risk and you know, if it doesn't work out okay, at the end of the are, you know where you're going when you die, right? So that's what, that's what reminds me like it's going to be fine.
Speaker 1:Ah, let's. I love, I've loved getting to know you today. Humility, resilience, curiosity yes, please, may I have another, sir. I need more and more of all three of those values. We're both longtime members of the Lutheran Church Missouri Synod. Not all of our listeners are in the Lutheran Church Missouri Synod, but we are. This is our tribe, this is our family. You've written for the publishing arm of the Lutheran Church Missouri Synod, concordia Publishing House. Shout out to CPH producing a lot of really really applicable content recently. The team is doing a wonderful, wonderful job, so highly, highly recommend. But as you've looked at the broader landscape of the LCMS, what are your biggest prayers for us collectively and where do you think we need to grow?
Speaker 2:as a church body. Yeah, these are excellent questions and they're worth having a lot of conversation and reflection on. I think I look at our church body and I see a place where I grew up in it. I'm the seventh generation in my family to go through Lutheran church Missouri Senate schools. You know I went preschool, through grad school. I went to to Lutheran institutions. You know my family going back to when the Lutheran church started in America was they were a part of that and that to me is a wonderful legacy. But when I look back it's through the research lens that I have where I say you know our Missouri Synod.
Speaker 2:We were some of the leaders in multi-ethnic outreach and connection with people and using men and women alike to really to share the gospel and I think that that's a particular challenge for us right now at this place. We are in history. I think we have the oldest religious demographic in America. You know we're over 95% white and that is not what our world around us looks like anymore of that and live in the reality of saying we have wonderful doctrine, we have very scripturally based sort of practices, but at the end of the day people matter and we have to prioritize reaching people with that hope of Christ, because we're in a hopeless world right now. People are looking. Everywhere you look at people are into rocks and crystals and like tapestries that hang from their walls. We have a culture around us that is crying out for truth and for peace and for real joy and real hope and we can't let our petty little things divide us. You know, I always tell people if you are around a collection of people that they all look like you and they sound like you and you all have the same thoughts. Your world is probably way too small. You have to be intentional about, you know, walking outside of that and seeing there's a big world out there that they need to know the hope of Christ. So yeah, I'd love to.
Speaker 2:I've done a lot of reading about just the early kind of settlers, especially in Michigan, early kind of settlers, especially in Michigan, and my great great grandfather was a part of the Frankentrost sort of the collection there that they did a lot of outreach to the indigenous people in that area and reading about how they did that was just. It's fascinating to me Because even the name Frankentrost it comes from this word of like the courage, the courage of the Franks right, the courage of the Bavarians. They knew that they were doing something that was gutsy and it was risky and there was no, no promise that they would be able to carve out a life in this wild Northern Michigan woods, but they went in fearlessly and they they did. You know, those churches still survive. So you know, god is good and God's got this. So we just have to remember that.
Speaker 1:Man, I'm so glad you're a part of our church body. I'm so glad that you're writing both nonfiction and fiction Keep it up. And I'm so glad that you're speaking into the need for the church to engage the next generation in kind of an unprecedented time in which we live, with these wonderful, wonderful, sweet young souls in our homes that need vision for a life that includes risk, adventure, hope and joy and close connection. That's what you've heard today. I'm taking away so many things, just grateful I'm just closing grateful that you're a part of our church body. You're a leader and your voice needs to be heard, cassie, and I thank you for sharing that voice today. If people want to connect with you, how can they do so?
Speaker 2:Yeah Well, thank you. Thank you for the kind words. I really full disclosure expected, a dumb and dumber quote in there to summarize. But Well, it's a cool one, big golf. Well, see you later.
Speaker 1:Big golf. See you later. No, no, no yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, no, connecting with me. I'm online, cassie H Moore, but my website is Cassie H Moore dot com, so feel free to connect there. You can see all my books. You can see my, you know. If you want to get in touch with speaking or anything else, feel free to send me a line there. But yeah, it's been. It's been great to get to know you too.
Speaker 1:Hmm, you've had this extra pair of gloves this whole time. I'm going to kill you, lloyd. I'm going to kill you. Yeah, no, there's so many, so many good quotes. I pray for just more joy in our church, joy in our interactions, and that's what I've experienced today. Thank you for sharing your story. This is the American Reformation Podcast. Please like, subscribe, look us up on YouTube. Unite Leadership Collective is our channel. Great couple podcasts a week from lead time and then one where we're trying to breach beyond, actually, the Lutheran Church Missouri Synod, having a number of different guests from within and outside of our church body, and we're grateful, we're grateful that you've spent that time with us today, listener. We'll be back next week with another episode of American Reformation. You rock, cassie. Thank you, thank you, thank you, thanks.